Legislature(1997 - 1998)

04/02/1997 04:02 PM Senate RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
             SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE                                        
                    April 2, 1997                                              
                      4:02 P.M.                                                
                                                                               
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                
                                                                               
Senator Rick Halford, Chairman                                                 
Senator Loren Leman                                                            
Senator Robin Taylor                                                           
Senator Georgianna Lincoln                                                     
Senator John Torgerson                                                         
                                                                               
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                 
                                                                               
Senator Lyda Green, Vice Chairman                                              
Senator Bert Sharp                                                             
                                                                               
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                             
                                                                               
Confirmation Hearings:                                                         
     Board of Fisheries                                                        
          Mr. Larry Engel                                                      
          P.O. Box 197                                                         
          Palmer, Alaska 99645                                                 
                                                                               
          Mr. Robert (Ed) Dersham                                              
          P.O. Box 555                                                         
          Anchor Point, AK 99556                                               
                                                                               
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                               
                                                                               
TAPE 97-23, SIDE A                                                             
                                                                               
Number 001                                                                     
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD called the Senate Resources Committee meeting to              
order at 4:02 p.m. and announced the Board of Fisheries                        
confirmation hearings.                                                         
                                                                               
MR. LARRY ENGEL  said he had no conflicts of interest and he has               
served on the Board for the last three years.  He said he was born             
and raised in Washington state.  His family was involved in                    
construction and commercial fishing.  He first came to Alaska in               
1958 with the Navy and served as the fish and wildlife liaison with            
the military base and the Department of Fisheries.  He became                  
employed by the Department of Fish and Game in 1960 and worked for             
22 years as a fisheries biologist.  He has served as a fisheries               
advisor to various groups since his retirement.                                
                                                                               
MR. ENGEL said the reason he want to serve on the Board is that the            
fisheries have been part of his life since he's been a young man               
and it has been good to him and now that he's retired he feels he              
has the time to give back to those resources what was given to him.            
                                                                               
Number 78                                                                      
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN said one of the criticisms he hears often of the                 
Board is the lack of experience in commercial fishing from the                 
broad area of the Aleutians to Yakutat, in the Gulf and coast                  
fisheries related to it.  Neither of the two appointments do                   
anything to abate that criticism and asked if he agreed with it.               
Could he cover for that by relying on other people.  MR. ENGEL said            
he has heard that and his position is that he is seated on the                 
Board to represent all interests throughout the State.  He puts                
just as much effort into trying to come up with reasoned decisions             
and he has a background in the commercial fisheries and fisheries              
biology.                                                                       
                                                                               
SENATOR TAYLOR asked over the last three or four years that he's               
been on the board does he receive calls when he is at home on some             
of the contentious issues or do they restrict themselves to                    
communicating with him during the public process.  MR. ENGEL                   
replied that he had received many calls at home.  He has also                  
attempted to meet on the fishing grounds and in the processing                 
plants.                                                                        
                                                                               
Number 225                                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR TORGERSON said people on the Advisory Boards, especially in            
Kenai, feel that the Board hasn't listened to their concerns and               
there's a very high frustration level and asked him if he thought              
that was a problem and what he might suggest to bring confidence               
back into those panels.  MR. ENGEL concurred that the advisory                 
process is not working as well as it once did.  He said tomorrow               
would be the first time he will be attending the Joint Boards of               
Game and Fisheries where they will deal 100% with advisory                     
committee issues.  SENATOR TORGERSON asked if he anticipated coming            
out of that meeting with some guidelines to help this problem.  MR.            
ENGEL said he didn't know what the outcome would be, but the point             
of the meeting is to look at the advisory committee structure and              
see how they improve it.                                                       
                                                                               
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if they attempted to advise or make                       
recommendations to the Limited Entry Commission.  MR. ENGEL replied            
yes.  He said they try to get the Limited Entry Commission to hold             
their meetings that deal with fisheries about to come under their              
jurisdiction to at the same time.  He said they have a good working            
relationship.                                                                  
                                                                               
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if he or the Board contemplated a buy back                
program as a form of reallocation of resource, especially on the               
contested issue of upper Cook Inlet.  MR. ENGEL said that had never            
been discussed to his knowledge.  But he said that was one of                  
second phases of the limited entry program for economic viability.             
However, he said, one of the concerns is as they reduce the number             
of participants further, that gives even greater exclusive rights              
to the remaining people.                                                       
                                                                               
Number 330                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. ED DERSHAM said he was born and raised in the State of Oregon.             
He reviewed his resume for the committee.  He said he has                      
participated quite a bit in the Board of Fisheries process for                 
seven years or so and the North Pacific Management Council process             
and he has come to highly regard the Board process.  He cares a lot            
about the fisheries and the conservation of the fisheries and wants            
to dedicate his energy to serving on the Board.                                
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN asked if he had seen a change in Cook Inlet in                   
halibut quantities and size that may suggest that the stocks are in            
trouble or that we might be looking at limits on that growth or do             
things look like they are in great shape.  MR. DERSHAM answered                
that his personal observations in the last 20 years of fishing for             
halibut out there is that they have cycles up and down and they                
seem to be cycling back up again.  They do tend to see older                   
halibut that are a smaller size. He has a personal concern about               
the number of big halibut being taken by the sport fisheries and he            
thinks it's a big mistake to target them.  They are a brood stock              
and everything the sport fishery can do to reduce the harvest of               
those bigger fish would be good.  He see certain areas of the State            
that are full or over capitalized as far as the halibut charter                
fishery goes.                                                                  
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN asked what his assessment was of the king and silver             
salmon stocks in the time he's been chartering, especially the                 
Kenai kings and how healthy they appear.  MR. DERSHAM responded                
that they went through a couple of years in the early 90s where the            
return of the late run of the Kenai River kings seemed really                  
sparse in the salt water and in the River counts.  They say it has             
been much better in the last three or four years.  It's not a very             
scientific viewpoint that they get because there are other factors             
to consider like certain conditions bring more kings close to the              
beach on given years.                                                          
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN asked if he had done any research at all on the king             
salmon by-catch on the trawl fisheries in the Gulf of Alaska.  MR.             
DERSHAM replied that they have quite a bit of information from the             
halibut charters on king salmon by-catch and it causes big concern.            
It is a big frustration because they haven't been able to                      
effectively address it.                                                        
                                                                               
Number 417                                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN asked if he thought the Board needed additional                  
information to be able separate stocks for certain streams such as             
the more recent intercepts like off the capes in Kodiak that are               
bound for Cook Inlet and some of the mixing stocks in the Inlet                
that might be headed for the Susitna, the Kenai, the Kasilof, etc.             
MR. DERSHAM replied the more information they get the better                   
regarding those stocks, but there are so many difficulties in                  
gathering that information and in separating stocks.                           
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN asked if participated at all in the winter king                  
salmon fishery off of Bluff Point.  MR. DERSHAM replied that he                
didn't, but he has a lot of close friends who do.                              
                                                                               
Number 449                                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR LINCOLN said she noted in his objectives he talked about               
allocation issues and wanted to know his view on the resolution                
that he may have on them.  MR. DERSHAM said he would draw on his               
own allocation experience and the approach that was taken was a lot            
of meetings among the users with Department participation before it            
actually came before the Board.  In the McCabe Flats they were                 
actually able to come up with a compromise between the user groups             
that no one was really happy with, but everyone decided they could             
live with; and that is what the Board actually adopted a year ago.             
He thought that was a good approach.  He also thought the                      
subcommittee approach that the Board of Fisheries has been taking              
in recent meetings has a lot of merit because it allows more time              
for the public to be involved and pass information and the members             
of the user groups to speak to possible solutions.                             
                                                                               
SENATOR TAYLOR asked for his thoughts on the proposed subsistence              
barter and trade of halibut that is being proposed before the North            
Pacific Council.  MR. DERSHAM said he wasn't familiar with that,               
but would very much appreciate getting a copy of it.                           
                                                                               
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if he felt that any quantity of catch                     
restriction would be a benefit for out-of-State users of the                   
resource in his area.  MR. DERSHAM replied when you look at                    
different specific fisheries he thought there would be different               
answers to that question.  People coming to Alaska and canning fish            
to send south has been a very visible problem.  He's not sure that             
non-resident limits would be the way to solve that problem, because            
most of the people caught there would violate the law, anyhow.  He             
said the Board would probably look at that issue next February.                
                                                                               
SENATOR TAYLOR said he has concerns and has listened to concerns               
about the large halibut taken out of that area and thought that if             
there was a quantity or weight limitation, then the charter boat               
operator would be much more interested in catching five or six                 
small halibut as opposed to catching one halibut that might put his            
whole boat over the limit.  He noted that the last time someone                
tried a concept like this, she was thrown off the Board by people              
out of the Kenai and Anchorage area.  MR. DERSHAM agreed with him              
and thought the issued needed looking at for that very reason.  He             
said at his lodge they educate people about how much fish they                 
really are catching and how much they really need to take home and             
put an incentive in there for them to stop by putting 70 lbs. fish             
processing per person or else they pay more.                                   
                                                                               
SENATOR TAYLOR reflected back over the last thirty years he has                
been involved with the fisheries and he thought that those guys who            
were all commercial fishermen who dominated the Board must have                
done a good job of managing those resources for all of the charter             
people to come along now and have a business to work off of.  He               
hoped that all the sport dominated folks that seem to be the                   
preference to this Board do just half as good a job.  MR. DERSHAM              
said he understands that, but he agrees with Mr. Engel's comments              
and believes if a Board member is energetic and dedicated to doing             
a good job and to educating himself he can do a good job.                      
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD thanked everyone and said they would pass their               
nominations on to the full Senate and adjourned the meeting at 4:45            
p.m.                                                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               

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